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Elmeaux
01-11-2011, 11:51 AM
Gather Round, O Denizens of the Row.

As we grow and adapt to meet the needs of our members, we would like to take your pulse.

Please answer the following question:

If a section was created on the Forum where professional bass players were brought on board to feature insider tips and tricks, and to make song lessons available for you to learn, would you be willing to pay, say, $2.00 or $3.00 for such content items on kind of a "pay to play" basis?


Feel free to answer simply as YES or NO, but we'd also appreciate some dialogue/feedback on the subject. As in, "Yes, but..." or, "No, because..."

TobiasMan
01-11-2011, 05:07 PM
Yes, but . . .

Only for the services of outside pros. We've purchased TMBG with the promise of a user group with access to Roy and others involved.

Don't want this user forum to turn into a place where anything other than the "forum" costs extra. :(

debitcred1
01-11-2011, 08:00 PM
yes, maybe...

it would really depend what and who was being offered. it would have to be pretty special to fork out more cash.

jthomas353
01-11-2011, 08:26 PM
Yes, maybe. It would have to be pretty special content. I can spend a few minutes searching on the internet and find a lot of great content. Hard earned cash goes towards the toys this bass players wants so parting with it for something else will need to be sonething really special.

Greg Jewell
01-11-2011, 09:08 PM
Elmeaux:

I think you have a workable idea, but the proposal is uncertain. It's kind of like...would you pay $500 for a car? Answer...it depends on the car. If you can dial in the specifics, perhaps we could give you a more informed response.

Elmeaux
01-11-2011, 09:38 PM
It isn't even a proposal. It's just an opinion poll based on suggestions that have been coming up lately.

It's not like there's a slate of content or musicicans standing in the wings or anything. :cool:

When a suggestion is made by a TR member, the powers that be just wanna hear what ch'all think about it.

It's more or less just another item on the "What's Your Pleasure?" poll, but it required a bit more space than a single "I Want More..." entry. :)

Since this is a dialogue forum about it, does anybody (who thinks this is a good idea) have any thoughts on how such a thing would work?

It was said that there's a lot of free stuff on the net, so why would we pay? Would this be TR exclusive material then? Seen only by our TMBG members? Would you pay per song? Would you pay for access to a special Pro Musician's Tips section?

Those who don't like the idea say so because the purchase of the kit comes with certain promised content. To those folks, is there any content you think WOULD go beyond that? Is there anything you WOULD consider pay-to-play worthy, or are you happy with the type of content just the way it is?

It's all just round-table yapping.

SilverFlame46
01-12-2011, 08:10 AM
Well, I hope I don't offend anyone but, I have to agree with TobiasMan, we've purchased TMBG with the promise of a user group with access to Roy and others involved. Once the door is open where you pay for extras the door will never close and just keeps getting open wider and wider (speaking from experience) and I to do not want this forum to turn into a continuous outlay of cash to participate. This is just MY opinion and as I stated before, I hope I have not offended anyone as this is not my intent. Therefore, I personally would not pay any additional money!!!

Elmeaux
01-12-2011, 10:06 AM
Well, speaking just for myself, I am not offended. This is a place to discuss a topic and no matter where you stand, your contribution to the discussion is what counts.

:cool::cool::cool::cool:

Patrick
01-12-2011, 11:30 AM
Well I think the question is more like this.

We already have the TMBG community here at Thunderrow with Roy's free support which comes with the TMBG Package as mentioned.

But what is asked is would you pay that 2 or 3 dollars for a lesson-type addition to this done by another pro player.

So for example (and not this is completely fictional) : Let's say that a pro like steve harris (Iron Maiden I hope ;)) offers a lesson on some of his playing techniques (I'm told he plays with 3 plucking fingers instead of the 2 most bass players use).

Because we cannot expect pro's to do this for free the option to pay a small fee for this special lesson was proposed with the question to the public (you) to see if there would be any interest to look into this.

If the general opinion here is that such extra's are not requested there is no need to start looking for pro's to do the lessons.

The lessons could be very diverse and you would be free to get whatever you wan so there is no obligation to buy those lessons or tips.

I hope I'm doing well explaining it.

So, bottom line is, let's have another example.
(again total fiction at the moment).

The setup could look like this :

Lesson ID | Difficulty or Level | song | Genre/style
001 | Beginner | Radar Love by Golden Earrin | Rock
002 | Intermediate | Too many puppies by Primus | Slap
003 | Expert / TMBG Chapter 10 or above | Black Sheep by Lane | Blues

so IF you are interested in slapping you could get lesson 002 only, and you would have access to a video or PDF or whatever (I guess the exact content of the lesson/tip should be provided also so you know what to expect before paying anything).

I don't know how this will work out for actual songs (copyright stuff) so it's possible there are no actual songs but more a "Run to the Hills Style" song by Steve Harris.

Again, this is just something that was brought up as a feature to make TMBG more attractive to others and there is nothing decided about this so like Elmeaux said. This is just TLD asking us what we would think of this. Also I guess other propositions are welcome so if you think you have a better idea (maybe something that doesn't require extra payments).

I can understand you don't want to pay more since TMBG was pricey already (compared to some other lessons available on the net).

Elmeaux did I explain it correctly here ? If not feel free to correct me ;);)

Elmeaux
01-12-2011, 09:46 PM
Nope. I'm good.

We're just throwing suggestions and questions. :D:D:D:D

FeltFedora
01-13-2011, 10:25 PM
It would really have to depend... more likely not. I am a huge Iron Maiden fan but not sure I want to spend even a few bucks to learn some tips or licks. (god knows I have spend enough on Maiden throughout the years - I own just about every recording they have ever released in the US) Honestly I would rather have a guy like Roy pop in or even other session bassists that really know music.

OT but FWIW I was reading recently that he (Steve H) actually only uses 2 fingers that suprised me. Billy Sheehan has a few good vids out there where he discusses his 3 finger technique.


But back on topic I would probably not jump on that. There is just SO MUCH available online and in books and DVD's I would not see much reason for it. TalkBass has a Ask the Pros section that is used quite a bit. TMBG is so different and so good branching out would take away from actually DOING THE COURSE. Still willing to bet a very small percentage of us have worked all the way through all the lessons. We should be given more motivation to finish the course rather than work on other stuff.

Maybe a submitted recording along teh way to show we are "getting it". Then give us a little forum award. God knows internet folk LOVE useless, worthless made up awards to boost our ego. I'd be on that quicker than Elvis on a whoopie pie.

Again I would rather Roy or a someone else with chops jump in and give an assignment now and again.

Patrick
01-14-2011, 11:15 AM
Well you have some interesting arguments there.

Now about Steve H. that was just an example. There have been no discussions on this with ANY professional player at this time.

The reason for the 2 or 3 USD is to give an incentive to do these sessions. I can understand people expecting Roy to do it at no charge but you cannot expect the same from someone like Victor Wooten for example.

Both Elmeaux and I are "normal" members just like you all and while I cannot speak for Emleaux I can agree with some of the arguments against this idea. And the whole reason of this poll is to get just that, the pro's and cons of fellow members to see if this is worth looking into. It would be a waste of TLD's money and resources to set-up this system just to find out that we don't feel a need for this).

The reason why the suggestion of other studio players was to bring in some professionals who have better understandings than Roy.

Now, I'm not saying Roy is not a great teacher or a great bass player, but let me try to use an analogy that our former Red Cross Chairman once told in one of our Fist-Aid lessons :

he said : "I am a 'Spe******t' (Radiologist) and I don't say that to brag, but to make clear that I'm specialized in one specific subject (Radiology) I do have the same basic education of medicine but there are some parts that a "regular" doctor has much more experience with and a better understanding. So it is possible that some questions you have are better to as a "regular" doctor than me"

Now, maybe we can see "Roy" in a similar fashion, if we see Roy as the "regular doctor" with great understanding of most of the Bass related subjects it is possible that another Professional player who is more specialized into 1 specific field (maybe a Metal bassist, a Pop & Slap bassist, a bassist who almost only uses a Pick, ...)

So these extra lessons could be for example a more "in dept" lesson on howto play with a Pick (I'm not a big fan of this but I did notice (at least up until Lesson 3 where I'm at now) that it's very limited in the TMBG cource).

The students who want to improve their "Pick" skills could then get that specific lesson and the once who don't feel a need for this lesson can just leave it as it is.

You are correct, there are some good "free" resources out there on the net. So the content that should be provided for this fee should be of high quality so that it's worth the price you pay for it.

But anyway, As We've said several times, this can be seen as a form or "brainstorm-session" where TLD asks our opinion and ideas to get an idea if this is a added feature that is worth looking into.

You do have some good suggestions there.



Maybe a submitted recording along teh way to show we are "getting it". Then give us a little forum award. God knows internet folk LOVE useless, worthless made up awards to boost our ego. I'd be on that quicker than Elvis on a whoopie pie.

Well I don't know how many have posted a video or MP3 of their playing here until now but I have the impression that I'm the only one posting MP3's and Elmeaux is the only one posting some vids from time to time.
But maybe with some kind of award system it might catch-up.
I don't know if Roy has the time for this, but maybe somekind of grade can be given for a specific song ?
So if you post a version on your "Improv: You play it" you would get a grade (1 to 10 ?) for that song so you know that when you have (let's say) 7 or Up you are ready to move to the next level.


Again I would rather Roy or a someone else with chops jump in and give an assignment now and again.
Good idea, but then there should be assignments for all levels (from lesson 01 to Lesson 20). But I don't know if it's possible to find other players (other than Roy) to make those assignments but I guess it never hurts to ask ?

Maybe somekind of official diploma can be given at the end of the TMBG course ? And to stay on the Puls subject. Would you pay a small free to be able to do those assignments and get an official diploma after finishing the course ? (so you can show you're friends you have graduated as a Bass Player) ?

Anyway,
I'm going to forward this to David and see what he thinks about this.

Arnisdaddy
01-30-2011, 03:08 PM
Actually, I was wondering if Roy (or anyone else at TLD) was planning a TMBG "Part 2". Perhaps TLD would better use their time in starting an "Advanced Bass Techniques" course rather than another bunch of short web courses. Perhaps with other "Pro's" lending their ideas and techniques in sort of a "roundtable course. Only a random thought from a newbe, but just thinking of the future.

JeffB
01-30-2011, 03:32 PM
Honestly, our teachers are not on here often enough as it is, or should I say, as often as I expected. Lane was doing great when he was here, he always had something new to offer. I dont have an issue with this as almost 99% of the discussion on this board is not related to actually practicing the course.

I was thinking just the other day, where are all the questions about the course, lesson specific questions? Did we all master each chapter or are we surfing the net and these boards when we should be practicing and generating these questions?
I know Im guilty!!

Elmeaux
01-30-2011, 05:58 PM
Honestly, our teachers are not on here often enough as it is, or should I say, as often as I expected. Lane was doing great when he was here, he always had something new to offer. I dont have an issue with this as almost 99% of the discussion on this board is not related to actually practicing the course.

I was thinking just the other day, where are all the questions about the course, lesson specific questions? Did we all master each chapter or are we surfing the net and these boards when we should be practicing and generating these questions?
I know Im guilty!!

I'm no master, that's for sure. I'm teetering on the brink of starting lesson 7.

I agree that the forum is essentially a social hub as opposed to a technical place for lesson specific questions.

I kinda like it that way. Questions come when they come, and there are some very knowledgable people who pop up to answer them, but they don't rule the place. Each of the forum topic areas gets pretty well used - er, except the ASK ROY forum. I would like to see more there too (as did most of the voters in the polls), but knowing how busy Roy is, I'm not sure I'd feel right about asking for more of his time.

If I was to speak perfectly frankly, I'd say the ASK ROY forum might have been somewhat of a "bite off more than you can chew" thing when the forum was being set up, but I won't question the good intentions of those involved.

I think there will be some great times coming once Roy begins to post the "in the style of" songs. Hee hee...Motown, here we come!!

Jeff, are you feeling disappointed about the way the forum is being used? Would you like more lesson specific talk? How about some brainstorming here?

If the ASK ROY forum could be re-tooled to be simply a place to discuss the lessons individually without necessarily waiting for Roy to respond, would you enjoy it? Roy could naturally speak up whenever he wanted to, but if a person asked a question, they wouldn't just be waiting for ONLY Roy.

See, I think there's kind of a hierarchy protocol in the ASK ROY forum that tells us, "When someone asks a question, the polite thing to do is wait until Roy speaks before anyone else answers." As a result, if Roy is too busy, the questions there often stagnate with no responses. It can leave a person feeling neglected. :(

Maybe if we kind of took charge of the ASK ROY forum as more of an open discussion where anyone could answer. What do you think? Would it be a more inviting place for lesson questions and talk? To separate the daily social gabbing from the lesson stuff?

Great posts, Jeff and Arnisdaddy. Keep the dialogue alive!

JeffB
01-30-2011, 06:43 PM
No no, Im OK with how everything is. The forum is fine, the course is great. I personally would rather the ask Roy forum be left to the pros but thats just me.

TLDTR
01-31-2011, 01:27 PM
I just want you folks to know we're listening to what you have to say and, while we don't want to make the mistake of trying to be all things to all people, are determined to provide valid and valuable content as well as conversation and information we think would be of interest to our members and visitors. Meantime, I hope you members are taking advantage of the MP3s, charts, and graphics we're posting under Resources.
Thanks for your input!
Ed.

jthomas353
02-01-2011, 12:21 PM
Honestly, our teachers are not on here often enough as it is, or should I say, as often as I expected. Lane was doing great when he was here, he always had something new to offer. I dont have an issue with this as almost 99% of the discussion on this board is not related to actually practicing the course.

I was thinking just the other day, where are all the questions about the course, lesson specific questions? Did we all master each chapter or are we surfing the net and these boards when we should be practicing and generating these questions?
I know Im guilty!!

I kind of feel the same way. Although I enjoy the chit chat, the articles, the contests (go Gretsch) etc., I also expected the pros to contribute a little more often. I don't have many issues on the lessons and if I do, I find a way to work it out. What Roy/Lane and the other pros do contribute is always helpful and appreciated.

I have noticed that only a few dozen of the hundreds of folks on the fourm actually participate on the forum. Where is everyone? Are Roy's lessons so good that they don't have questions? Is there another reason they don't participate (did Ralph scare them off :p)? It would be great to get some feedback from those folks as to why they don't participate. Is this just the nature of discussion forums?

Thoughts?

Elmeaux
02-01-2011, 12:37 PM
I agree. I'd like to know why more members don't drop by and join in the various topics. Is it the content? Is the course not working out for them? I guess not everybody is interested in online participation.

Some folks buy the course, sign up for the forum, and then we never hear from them again.

:(

TobiasMan
02-01-2011, 07:00 PM
To use a different educational analogy, I see TMBG as the Bachelours degree of bass playing. It provides great basic training in a wide variety of things, but if you want to specialize, you need to get a Masters, and that would be a different course.

Greg Jewell
02-01-2011, 11:25 PM
I think TobiasMan is spot on...again. A BA in Bass in 18 months is a magnificent opportunity. There is no easy way to learn how to play ones instrument of choice. And it's easy to see why someone not totally committed to TMBG might bail out... looking for something easier. And to further TobiasMan's analogy, Grad School (specialization) begins after the fundamentals have been properly learned and mastered.

Greg