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View Full Version : A general question about tone.



brian_primrose
04-10-2014, 06:47 AM
If one is not happy with the tone one is getting from the player/bass/amp/speaker combination, where is the best piece to upgrade/change? I realize that the player is the obvious place to start, but that remains a work in very slow progress.

I have an upper end Ibanez SR maple neck through 5 string with Bartollini electronics and pups, and an Ibanez Soundwave 100 watt, 15" speaker combo rig. To date I have never been thrilled with tones I have been able to get, and to tell the truth, there are a couple of deadish spots on the neck of the bast that I don't like. It plays well and fits my hand otherwise.

So the question is, in the search for a sound, do people think I should start shopping for a new bass or new amp +- speakers?? Only one is in the budget for the forseeable future.

Brian

Nicki
04-10-2014, 08:01 AM
That's a tough one!!! All of the above impact tone, obviously, but key is going to be finding what is bothering you.

My gut tells me that the most bang for you buck is going to be an upgrade in your amp/cab. I've not ever played an Ibanez Soundwave, but I've not heard great things about the non-Promethean Ibanez cabs.

If I were you, I'd bring your entire rig out with you shopping. I'd start with playing your bass through other amps. If you find one you like the tone of much better...you're done! If you still feel like you're struggling, bring in your combo and see if you feel differently about it when you're playing a different bass.

JohnMSchiavone_Bass
04-10-2014, 09:40 AM
I think you have two different issues.

The dead spots on the neck are usually a result of the resonant frequency of the bass not the amp to cabinet. There is a device (I forget the name) which clamps on your headstock and by virtue of its weight, changes the resonant frequency of the bass and reduces dead spots. Sadowsky's new basses have thicker headstocks for the same reason. Maybe changing strings would help, but otherwise you need to change basses.

Your issue with tone is more complex. What don't you like about it? Once you have that clear, maybe you can determine what you need to change. Everything affects tone, but not all aspects of tone. Your problem could even be the space you're playing in, not your equipment or technique.

ghsky1
04-10-2014, 01:30 PM
John,
The part of which you speak is the Fender Fatfinger (http://www.fender.com/accessories/fatfinger/).

Bassix
04-10-2014, 02:13 PM
Brian,

If you haven't seen this video from Scott Devine, check it out. In summary, he focuses on your hands to get the tone you desire.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vUNUo3TbyI

I've found that pedals, such as the Zoom B3, help to sculpt the tone even more if you want something a little more exotic. Truthfully, the tone you want might already be in your hands (literally). :) Good luck.

DaveB
04-10-2014, 11:04 PM
The cheapest way to change your tone (aside from fiddling with the knobs on the amp and bass) is to change the type of strings that you are using. The first thing that I did when I got my SR505 was to ditch the clankey, over-bright round wound strings that came on it (I believe that they were Elixirs) and put on a set of D'Addario Tape Wounds. I have also used and liked D'Addario Chromes (flat wounds). If you are using round wound strings, try a set of flat wounds, or vice versa. If you check out the D'Adderio page at Bass Strings Online (URL below) it shows the relative brightness/mellowness for each type of string. I personally like strings that are more toward the mellow side. Other people like really bright sounding strings. That's why there are so many types/brands of strings - 'cause they all sound and feel different.

https://www.bassstringsonline.com/DAddario-Strings_c_17.html

muz
04-11-2014, 03:39 AM
I agree with DaveB. I have just changed the strings on my Squire MB-4 to the D'Addario tape wounds and I love the tone, more thump, a little less sustain, sort of sounds like an upright, very mellow. Much easier to play as well, easy on the fingers. The action has been lowered by .25mm as these strings will not cause fret buzz. Great for my untrained fingers. You can change the bridge, pups etc but it all costs. You can always audition some other amps, nothing beats the sound of a valve, you can go for either a full valve setup or a hybrid setup using a valve preamp and solid state power amp stage. At the end of the day you need to be happy so let your ears make the choice.

Elmeaux
04-11-2014, 06:55 AM
I've found that pedals, such as the Zoom B3, help to sculpt the tone even more if you want something a little more exotic. Truthfully, the tone you want might already be in your hands (literally). :) Good luck.

I second that emotion for the B3. You can set it to emulate many, many different speaker brands, other pedals, and a wide variety of effects. The bass becomes a whole new incarnation with each setting. You can even choose which order you want the effects chained through the amp.

muleskinnerslider
04-12-2014, 01:16 PM
You might want to consider taking your Bass to a decent guitar shop for a setup adjustment regarding the dead spots. A pro setup can do wonders for a Bass. The easiest way that I have found to test for tone combos that I like is to use a digital guitar interface such as an iRig HD and apps such as Jamup, Bias, Amplitube 3, & Ampkit. There are many good Bass Amp and effects pedal sims that you can try out this way. All of the advancements that have been made over the last couple of years with simulations make them a very useful and fairly inexpensive tool in your kit. This is especially true if you already own an iPad. Android tablets have too much latency, so you can't typically use a non-Apple device. Anyway, when you find a tone that you like, go to a store and try the same hardware out. This can really save you a lot of time and frustration.

I am someone who was never for years and years happy with my guitar/bass/amp tones and I like to play around with tone possibilities a lot. I would gamble and just go buy an amp and end up hating it, plus this gets very expensive after a while. These apps had a really positive effect on my musical universe. Really, these emulations have actually now become a permanent part of my setup. I plug the sound out of the iPad to the aux input on my Fender amp, and it's golden with no preamp coloring to the emulation. My Bass amp sounds like a Trace Elliot, Orange, classic Fenders, & Classic Ampegs, etc. Close enough for me anyway, considering I could never afford to buy all that hardware. It's also helped me to understand better what some of the true classic tones are all about, Hope this helps!

brian_primrose
05-03-2014, 06:46 AM
Many thanks to all for the ideas and suggestions.
I had a chance to go shopping in the city this past weekend, and will put the results of that trip in the "gear we have tried" thread.
@Bassix-I watched the video, and loved it.
@Muleskinnerslider-I liked the idea, but at this point, since I do not even own a smart phone. An I Pad may be in the future if I can bring the upsstairs bathroom reno in under budget.
@DaveB I spent the last year playing with strings and did settle on the tapewounds a bit ago. I swap them out for a set of nickle roundwounds on rare occasion for a rock song.

Again many thanks to all.

Brian

5Slinger
05-27-2014, 07:40 PM
Maybe a little late to the party but my two cents...Tone is subjective so everything should be taken with a grain of salt. That said, I owned a Ibanez Soundwave amp long ago. I can't tell you how much it sucked...(IMO) the only Ibanez amp that I have ever thought to keep was the promethean line (higher end). That said, shopping amps is an expensive endeavor. I would go with Muleskinnerslider for step one, get a good setup on that bass (Ibanez does make a pretty nice bass and the one you own is very nice). After set up, take it to your local guitar center, or some other music shop and plug into a couple of cabs. Try them all, Fender Rumbles are very nice, Ampeg, Mark Bass, Accoustic, GK, Mesa, etc. The pricing will vary wildly but play around until you find "that tone". While your at it, pull a couple of basses off the wall and see how they compare to your Ibanez. Even if you don't find it, the search is always fun!

Good luck.

AB

brian_primrose
05-28-2014, 07:28 AM
Arnold, your opinion is always valued. Nicki's guess/gut and your experience were right. The main problem I was having was the amp/cab combo. I did not take the bass for a pro set up because there is no pro within several hours drive. That said, I am not too bad at it myself.

I did not have room to take the whole rig when Arlene and I went to the city so just the bass went with me. We were actually in 2 cities and the first thing I will comment on is that each store has a limited number of brands they carry and a limited product selection, so perforce one can only try what one can get their hands on. It did not help that the day I had to shop in Toronto was Sunday so only one store there was open.

First I plugged in to a Fender Rumble 350 combo. Nice round tone, good conectivities (sp?). the tone was a bit dark for me and as well, it was hevy enough that heaving it in and out of the car was a daunting thought. I am 65.

Next up was a TC electronics 250 watt/210. Brighter sound, and a more favourable schlep factor and a fascinating "intelligent pre amp" that will apply effeects (which I don't use) from your I phone (which I don't own). sounds like more Nicki's cup of tea. I did like it though untill I plugged in to a Markbass 300/210 combo.

Seeet mids puncy lows authorative B string and clear highs. what most impressed me was the way each note, within the limits of my technique, had the same volume and presence across the entire fretboard. The "dead" spot at Db on the G is now a shorter sustain that only the bass and I know about.

Orriginally I was planning to get a head and cab but went with the combo because I liked the sound and it is, at 20 Kg (44 Lb) an easy lift in and out. Getting the head alone would have tempted me to order Berantino cab untested and above budget. Problematic, as I am definately not the CFO in these parts. G.A.S. and fiscal restraint are incomserable.

I was also looking to try a hybred tube pre solid power but none were available in the shops. i did try to lift a few all tube heads, and did not even bother to plug in. Ditto-you have my admiration for you commitment to the gym.

A few non fatal points- this thin is loud. with the gain adjusted as per manufacturer, in my practice space of 200 sg ft I have not got the volume past 2 before the comments come down the stairs. there is a hiss from the tweeter with the trebles turned up, and, as mentioned, all my errors and impresisions are obvious.

I also had a chance to try some basses along the way, but that is another story. Enough to say that my G.A.S. is palliated for the moment, but not in any way cured.

Brian

Nicki
06-02-2014, 07:07 AM
Fantastic, Brian!!! I'm very happy to hear that you've found some gear that scratches that itch, and better yet gets you tonally where you'd rather be. Can't wait to hear about those other basses you got to try out, too!

TobiasMan
06-02-2014, 10:13 AM
Glad you found a lightweight combo that "satisfies the soul"! :D

There are some fairly lightweight hybrid amps out there, but many of them use the tube in the gain section of the amp, not the tone section, so the "tube" makes little difference to the ultimate tone.

5Slinger
06-07-2014, 05:10 PM
Awesome Brian! Great to hear that you have found something that works for you. Markbass makes exceptional gear and should keep you satisfied for years to come. Like Nikki, I am eager to hear your experience trying the different basses.