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  • New Video Posting Rules - To All Thunder Row Members

    Due to some new Google rules involving enforcement of the potential infringement of copyright in its YouTube videos (Google owns YouTube), we are going to start implementing some stricter rules as to what can be posted on Thunder Row.

    We will no longer accept the posting of videos where you feature yourself (or any bassist) playing along to a fave song, if that song is featured in the background. Google/YouTube attests that the person filming hasn't the right to feature copyright protected music without the owner's permission.

    Examples:

    1 - I want to post a video of Zander Zon playing solo "Stairway to Heaven" on his bass. This is okay, because Zon is just giving us his version of the song.

    2 - My band had a great gig this last weekend. Here's us playing "Billie Jean," with me on bass!! This is also okay.

    3 - A Thunder Row member wants to post a video of him/herself playing bass to "Radar Love" and has the Golden Earring version playing in the background as a guide. This is not okay anymore, since the member has not cleared the use of the song through the owners.

    4 - Anything in the Public Domain is still good to go.

    If you record a video like the example in #3, and post it to YouTube, you've probably already dealt with their copyright censor, since YouTube scans every video uploaded for markers that would flag it as a violation. They will notify you if your video may be an infringement. Some songs slip through their censor, especially if you play to an unknown cover band's version, but YouTube's database of known songs is pretty durn extensive.

    There are rules that allow postings of this nature to stay up, based on the "Fair Use Clause." If you feel your video falls into this category, you can submit a disclaimer to YouTube, describing the category of Fair Use under which your video resides, (they have you fill out a form) and they may or may not accept it. I, myself, have a couple of videos on my channel that cannot be seen in Germany because of this. My appeals for Fair Use were accepted by the content owners in the USA, Canada, and most other countries, but were rejected in Germany. I have one video of me playing along to CCR's "Bad Moon Rising" and another of me playing to "Monster Mash." Neither is allowed to be seen in Germany. I also have a third video of me playing along to "There's a Tear in My Beer" that has gone completely under the radar, since I am using a cover band's version of the song, and it was not recognised by their content censors.

    This is the basic Fair Use disclaimer statement:

    "According to the 'Fair Use' clause of International Copyright Law, the author declares that the use of the photos/images/information in this academic/reference/scholarly work is for purposes of 'criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, or research' according to Section 107."

    There are various versions of it, but this will usually get your video a day in court.

    Thunder Row is going to act on the side of caution and remove any videos that feature someone playing along to a background song for which the player does not own the rights. Even if you have received a stay of execution through a Fair Use submission/acceptance, we don't want to rock the boat on this whole issue. As part of our clean-up process, I am going to find any of my own videos that have been flagged by YouTube and remove them from Thunder Row.

    If we take down your video, we'll send you a note to let you know. Whether or not you take these videos down from your YouTube channel is your own business - we're only concerned with what's posted on Thunder Row. I know from personal experience that if YouTube asks you to take a video down and you don't comply, they usually just stick a bunch of ads on your page and let it run with links to iTunes to buy the originals. Good enough.

    Truth be told, gang, they're probably only interested in going after big-time offenders who earn money from their sites, not Joe-Blow bass players who just want to show off their skills. Nonetheless, where this issue is concerned, Thunder Row wants to stay within the confines of the copyright laws.

    If you want to post something here, but aren't sure if you're good to go, send me or David a link to the video and we'll pre-screen it for TR. Before you contact us, however, post the video to YouTube and see whether or not they flag it for content. If they do, it's a safe bet we'll be forced to turn it down.

    There are likely going to be questions about this. As usual, we'll all do our best to help you make the decision for each situation.

    You can still post videos of your fave pro bass players doing their thing on stage. As far as posting those old 70s videos where it shows a 45 record spinning while the song plays... I am really not sure about those just yet. To the best of my knowledge, YouTube is going to enforce the rules at their end. They'll be dealing with the channel-holders who post the questionable videos. Grey areas abound, that's for sure!

    This new policy is going to start being enforced by Google/YouTube in the coming weeks, so we're going to be updating our own site based on new info as we receive it. I've been doing my best to read up on this subject so that we're doing all we should be, but please let us know if you come across any info that updates/contradicts anything posted here. It's a learning process.

    The good news? We continue to offer each and every one of you full permission to post yourself playing along with any lesson or video from Roy Vogt's Teach Me Bass Guitar.

    Thanks in advance for your understanding.
    Comments 5 Comments
    1. daddyg's Avatar
      daddyg -
      I see no negatives in this policy rule change, for the reason that we are on this site anyway. We want to be better bass players and the best way to do that is to woodshed the song of the person/group you want to play and present it with your own backing track. That means you are forced to work on your rhythm and timing with the end result only to be improvement. I say thanks Google / you tube I'm only going to be a better all around bass player.
    1. Rubbersoul's Avatar
      Rubbersoul -
      Yeah OK I can see why, but I can see a whole lot of content that I use and or enjoy, disappearing, which is unfortunate. What about people using backing tracks from TMBG, does that come into it.
    1. david's Avatar
      david -
      Hi, Rubbersoul -

      The Learning Dock, LLC - which owns the copyright on all the material on TMBG, allows TMBG owners to use tracks from the series for all but commercial purposes. So rock on, and enjoy!
    1. Elmeaux's Avatar
      Elmeaux -
      I've gotten some questions from members so let me add some extra info.

      STAGE 1 will be to remove only those videos of members/other people playing along to famous songs as backing tracks. We can't use a copyrighted song as a backing track without permission, and Thunder Row/TLD do not wish to appear as an endorser of this potentially infringing material. We can't guarantee that the source of the video has received permission through a "Fair Use" appeal.

      As more info becomes available about the subtler points of the new rules, we'll make additional sweeps to see if we are violating other rules.

      Read these articles - Google is going after the Big Time Operators - they really don't want to shoot themselves in the foot by completely destroying how we all use their services, especially YouTube. Technically, Google/YouTube love their users... but they still have to obey the laws.

      http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2408367,00.asp

      http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2408341,00.asp

      http://www.itproportal.com/2012/08/1...piracy-policy/

      (note: providing these links does not constitute an infringement)

      The whole idea is that their new Google search algorithms will be looking for violations. If your YouTube channel or website has five, they'll pass you by. If your channel or site has, say, a thousand or more, they'll report you to authorities.

      The business of providing links to copyrighted material (which is more or less what we do here) is still not 100% clear. If we don't create the content, have we really breached the law? Currently, the answer is NO, but they are going to be working on ways to lock this up as well. They're calling it "conspiracy to promote copyright infringement." And again, it's all a matter of degrees, the number of links provided on a site, whether the site owner makes money from the links, and whether or not the content falls under the category of "Fair Use."

      As I said yesterday, my own YouTube channel has several partially blocked videos, and yet my account is considered to be "In Good Standing" - my reputation is sound. I have applied for "Fair Use" for every claim made against me and have won the right to feature my stuff as educational and in good faith (except in Germany). I am so "small potatoes" that they don't even bother with me. Three or four low-grade potential infringements are not their priority.

      But the whole thing with the new rules is a big mess, believe me. I've been poring over as much info as I can get my hands on, and there are many differing interpretations of the rules.

      Keep the questions and comments coming. We're all in this together.

      If anybody else has experience with applying for "Fair Use" on their YouTube channels, please join in the conversation.
    1. TobiasMan's Avatar
      TobiasMan -
      I can see some downside to any new policy regarding linking, from legitimate YouTube posters. If you post your stuff so that it is seen, becomes well known and purchased/downloaded, etc., disallowing links to your stuff would severely limit the value of YouTube to you.

      I can't tell you how many times I have discovered music I didn't know existed because someone posted a link saying, "check these folks out". I have other things to do in my life besides be glued to YouTube to surf for new music postings, so I really rely on reference links from other people.

      If that is gone, much of the "commercial" value of YouTube would be gone for any legitimate posters.
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