Welcome to Thunder Row, where bassists from around the world connect, collide, confer, conference, compose, collude, and communicate!
Don't be shy, jump on in!



Roy's Blog




*Teach Me Bass Guitar, the most comprehensive, effective, and entertaining program of bass instruction anywhere. Guaranteed.
www.teachmebassguitar.com


Free Sample Lessons
Sign up for THUNDERFIST: Your FREE bass tip excerpts from TMBG - the most fun, effective self-paced video instruction for bass guitar ever created!
Your Name*:
Your Email*:
(*We will not share this information.)

SocialTwist Tell-a-Friend

myspace myspace
myspace myspace

 


  • Buying On-Line

    Since there was some interest expressed in my on-line buying adventures, I decided to split this off from the Drake Custom Bass story and make it a separate post.

    Being a gear freak with a severe collecting affliction (packus ratitis is the scientific term), I have accumulated a collection of 22 guitars. Nineteen of those guitars are basses and three are "treble" units. I don't have much money, but I do have decent credit......although, maybe for not much longer at this rate. Anyway, out of all those guitars I have purchased only one of them locally. That one was a used Peavy T-40 from Music Go Round. Actually, it wasn't really local, since the store was in a different, but relatively nearby, city. The music stores in Tampa, FL all carry pretty much the same gear, which usually amounts to a few Fenders and a bunch of Ibanez. These stores bass guitar inventory is normally about one tenth (if that) of their "treble" guitar inventory, and frequently displays signs of extensive "handling". So, on-line shopping seemed the way to go.

    Buying new gear form one of the major on-line retailers is relatively safe. They all seem to have generous return policies and will pay the shipping both ways if the reason for return is due to a defect. If the buyer decides that they do not like the bass after trying it, the buyer is usually responsible for the return shipping. Pretty clear cut and straight forward, but you should ALWAYS read the seller's return policy BEFORE making the purchase. Many of these retailers sell units that have been returned at a significant discount. Usually their standard return policy will apply to these discounted units as well. I have gotten great deals on these returned units, and they were in perfect condition. On the other hand, I have returned guitars, that came in factory sealed boxes, because they were defective in some way. Be aware that most on-line stores do not inspect items before they ship them to the customer, so you may receive a defective guitar that got past the manufacturer's quality control, if they have any. Sweetwater claims to inspect and set-up all the guitars they sell. In practice, however, this does not seem to be the case, as I have received at least two defective guitars from them. If they performed their heavily marketed inspection and set-up, that should not happen.

    Buying used guitars on-line is another situation entirely. I have only purchased used guitars on-line via Ebay. This is due to the fact that Ebay has policies that protect the buyer from dishonest sellers. This is a good thing, because there are lots and lots of sellers who, shall we say, are somewhat less than truthful when it comes to describing the condition of the item they are trying to unload. I have bought very nice guitars, for a fraction of their new price, on Ebay, but I have also had a number of unfortunate encounters with dishonest sellers. I have also had a few interesting experiences with sellers that seemed to be basically honest, but had unrealistic or skewed perspectives on the products they were selling and/or Ebay's policies. So, the main thing to do, when buying used gear on-line, is to protect yourself from these various individuals. If you get screwed on a deal, it won't matter if it was intentional or unintentional, you are still screwed. The method that has worked well for me is to use Paypal Buyer's Credit for all Ebay purchases. This gives you three layers of protection.

    The first layer is Ebay's Money Back Guarantee. There seems to be a bit of confusion among sellers about how this policy works. I experienced this apparent confusion with the seller of the Drake Custom bass. This policy protects the buyer from getting stuck with an item that was described inaccurately, even if the buyer states in the auction that they do not accept returns. The "no returns" statement in an auction only means that the buyer can't return an item just because they changed their mind for some reason. In other words, the item can't be returned because it didn't fit right, or it didn't match their decor like they hoped, or some other arbitrary reason. If the seller's description of the item was accurate and they stated "no returns" in the auction, then it's a done deal. However, if the item was not described accurately, the buyer can return it, or negotiate a partial refund, regardless of the "no return" statement by the seller.

    Let me add a very important warning at this point. If the seller has the dreaded "as is" statement in their auction, you would be wise to move on. You should expect any item with "as is" in the description to be broken/damaged no matter how sincerely the seller claims the item to be functional or undamaged. The "as is" statement gives the seller a license to steal. Unless the price is appropriate for a broken item of that type, avoid that auction and that seller. The second layer of protection for the buyer is Paypal itself. If you are not getting satisfaction from Ebay's customer service, then you can move on to Paypal's customer service. This layer comes into play when a dishonest seller attempts to thwart Ebay's policies by emptying their Paypal account and/or their Paypal linked bank account before you can get your refund. This level of seller dishonesty is rare, but not unheard of. I also experienced this situation, once, on Ebay. Ebay handles the items, but Paypal holds the purse strings. When this happens, without intervention from Paypal, I am not sure what the outcome would be. When I had this sad experience, I was able to persuade Paypal to force the refund through, thus creating an overdraft on the buyer's bank account. Sweet justice!

    The persuasion I referred to, is layer three. Layer three is Paypal Buyer's Credit. This credit account is NOT a division or subsidiary of Paypal or Ebay. It is a completely separate entity, formerly known as GE Credit Services, and now goes by the name of Synchrony Financial. This is the, so called, "nuclear option". Synchrony is the source of funds and Paypal is merely a facilitator of the transaction in this case. I have only had one occasion when this step came into play, and in the end it was only used to persuade Paypal to act. I called Synchrony and explained the situation to them and told them, quite matter of factly, that if I did not get satisfaction from Paypal, that I would not pay them (Synchrony) for the item in question, which would result in Synchrony taking the loss. The Synchrony rep told me there was no problem, and if that came to pass, they would reverse the charge and credit my account for the amount in question. When I relayed that conversation to the Paypal rep, he immediately forced my refund through, resulting (to my great pleasure) in an overdraft situation for the jerk seller. I call this "the nuclear option", due to the fact that if you follow through with this threat, your credit rating will likely take a major hit. The reality is, however, you are very unlikely to ever have to act on that threat. The reason for this is simple. Credit issuers do not take losses. They pass the loss on to either the seller or the buyer (almost always the seller), but do not absorb the loss themselves.

    When a retailer/seller signs a merchant agreement with a financial institution, which allows them to accept credit cards, they agree to allow said financial institution to withdraw funds from their merchant account in the event of a transaction dispute. The time period, after the date of the transaction, that this withdrawl can occur can be up to two years!!! And the reason the loss is almost always borne by the seller is because the buyer has no such agreement with the financial institution that issued the credit that they used to make the purchase. So the financial institution has the legal right to withdraw funds from the seller's account, but not from the buyer's account. The path of least resistance comes into play here. The seller takes the loss because that is the easiest path to resolve the dispute. See how simple it is..........banks never lose!!!

    It is also very important to ALWAYS use Ebay's in-house messaging system for all communication with the seller. This is because if a dispute arises, Ebay can read those messages in an effort to determine who is at fault in the dispute. This fact makes it very important to maintain a polite and respectful tone when dealing with the seller, regardless of their attitude. And, since Ebay keeps records, you do not want to abuse their policies by filing frivolous disputes or attempt to use their policies as leverage against the sellers. Use the policies as protection, and not as a blunt weapon to bludgeon the seller into giving you a partial refund. Abuse the system and you will lose access to it.

    Buying guitars on-line, especially used guitars, can be a great experience, or a not so great experience. If you are going to buy on-line you must be prepared for the not so great experiences. Patience is a must, and no matter how angry you may get at an obviously dishonest seller, your response needs to be polite and reasonable. If you can deal with the frustrations, there are great deals to be had on-line.


    This article was originally published in forum thread: Buying On-Line started by kimgee View original post
    Comments 1 Comment
    1. Elmeaux's Avatar
      Elmeaux -
      Thanks for the report, kimgee! I moved it up front because I think it deserves a lot of attention.

      I have a thing in my Paypal account that allows me to withhold payment until the item arrives and I find it suitable. Paypal pays for the item itself when I order it, and when I approve of the item that arrives, I go to the order and release the funds. Only then does Paypal withdraw my money. I've never disapproved of a delivery, so I'm not sure what would happen next if I did. I guess I would open a dispute ticket or something.

      If you use Paypal a lot and have a certain kind of verification or certification, you can do this too. It's a nice safeguard.
  • Latest Videos

    Donohoe & Grimes Do Up Some Floyd

    Publish Date: September 26, 2014, 10:15 am


    Read More Read More


  • Bass Tips

    Beginning Bass Lessons

    Publish Date: July 25, 2015, 1:00 pm


    Read More Read More


  • Ads