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Thread: Thinking About Upgrading

  1. #1

    Default Thinking About Upgrading

    I am thinking about upgrading my amp to go with the new bass, and I want to bring my questions to the forum.

    First of all, is a tube amp head REALLY that much better than solid state to warrant the ridiculous prices?

    Right now I use a Behringer BXL-450 Ultrabass (45 watts). I have found two tube amp heads from Ashdown that are less power than my current amp, but are reasonably affordable:
    http://ashdownmusic.com/products/1/B...ttle-Bastard-/
    and
    http://ashdownmusic.com/products/1/B...alve/13/CTM15/

    But would downgrading the power really be a step forward in the sound that I produce? Also, if I jump off the tube amp cliff, what would be a good cabinet to pair with those heads?

    My other option is to stay with a solid state amp, and I have two combo amps that I am looking at:
    http://www.fender.com/amps/bass-ampl...and-horn-120v/
    and
    https://www.orangeamps.com/products/...-pix-cr100bxt/

    I wonder if anybody has experience with either of those amps. Right now I am leaning towards the Orange, if for no other reason than they think an Ibanez SR1205 sounds good enough with their amps to be one of the demo tracks.
    Ibanez SR1200
    Ibanez AFB200
    Carvin MB210

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Alberta, Canada
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    Default

    Tube amps have been found to generally perform above their weight class, and typically have a warmer tone than solid state amps. THey also use tubes, which are relatively expensive and most tube amps require them all to be replaced and re-biased at the same time - also costly.

    I know that Elmeaux loves her Fender Rumble. If you were looking at the Fender or the Orange amps, you'll have to compare feature to feature and certainly try them out with your bass. Every combo has its own tone/sound and you need to find the one that's right for you.
    ___________________________________
    Steinberger NXT5 EUB, MTD 535 Fretless, Tobias Killer B6, 72 Fender Precision
    Eden WT500, WTX1000N & WP100, QSC PL230
    Eden D410XLT, D410XST, 215, Fender Bassman 10

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
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    Whitehouse, Texas
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    Default

    For what it's worth, I had a Fender Rumble 150 and really loved it while I was only playing at home. Once I became more mobile, we had to part ways because it proved to be too cumbersome loading in and out of the backseat. I switched to Markbass for both the amp and cab and I believe that the cab is tight and fantastic. You could not go wrong with probably any Markbass cab. I had also considered the Markbass CMD 102P combo.
    "There is no such thing as a bad note, just a bad resolution." - Damian Erskine

    Squier Vintage Modified Jazz Bass 70's
    Ibanez SR4XXV
    Fender Select Precision Bass
    Markbass Little Mark Tube 800
    Markbass New York 122 cabinet
    Pigtronix Philosopher Bass Compressor
    Sonic Research Turbo Tuner ST-200
    Voodoo Lab Pedal Power 2 Plus
    The Mini Bone pedalboard by Gator
    Monster Bass cables

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
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    Shirley, MA
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    Default

    IMO, tube amps aren't generally worth the extra money. Certainly back in the bad old days of solid-state, tube amps were the way to go. Now, I'm not so sure that's true. I think they've come back as trendy, 'cause the old guys with money to burn like to play what they used to play. Nothing wrong with that, but I think solid-state has been unjustly maligned. Like anything, you've got to play through them and see what you like.

    I have a solid state GK amp (700 RBII), and it certainly has a nice warm sound on my Bergantino cab. I can barely crack it off zero and it just about rattles my eye-teeth out. Do you plan on playing out with this combo at all? 100w is not a lot for bass.

    I've tried many Fender rumbles. They're fine. Certainly better than a lot of combos out there.

    Orange are also decent, but pricey and underpowered compared to others out there. Orange also have a very specific sound. You have to judge for yourself whether you like it or not.

    If you can find one, check out the Promethean combos. They're made by Ibanez, with consultation from Carol Kay. I've been gigging with my Promethean for 1.5 years. I have a P3115. It's 300 watts, and is perfect for a small venue. Really nice, warm sounding combo.

    I don't personally like the sound of Markbass combos. They're very sterile-sounding to me. But again, everyone's ears are different.

  5. #5

    Default

    Thanks everyone for your help. The main problem with being able to test out any amp purchase that I make is that I only have one music store that is really "local". When I looked up an authorized Orange dealer, the closest to me is 125 miles. The local music store is an authorized Fender dealer, but has obscene mark-up rates for anything that I order.

    This pretty much forces me to shop online for my gear. Luckily, talking to you guys, reading reviews, and YouTube videos have helped to keep me from being disappointed. I know that, in most things, you get what you pay for and certainly musical instruments and equipment fall into that category. So maybe I am looking at it in the wrong way, but I just can't wrap my head around a 30 watt tube amp costing $850. All I can think of is the old tube operated tv we had back in the 70's and its $0.50 tubes. Thanks, Nicki, for confirming what I already suspected.

    I was looking at this Markbass last night:
    http://www.markbass.it/product_detail.php?id=240

    There was ONE YouTube video of it being played and it sounded good. I thought that maybe attaching a 2 x 10 cab to it might make for a pretty cool rig. I don't know much about that stuff so I was just tossing ideas around in my head.

    Then I went to Carvin guitars, and they have several amp rigs, and the prices are so LOW that I am suspicious of them. I know that Roy plays a Carvin in the TMBG course material, but I don't know what kind of amps he uses. I would ask, but the only "askroy" question I ever fielded never got a response from him. I do know that when I was pricing guitars before my Ibanez purchase I looked at a Carvin, and that went from $1000 to $2700 and out of my price range in a hurry. So I know that they are not shy about charging for their services!

    Does anybody have any experience with Carvin amps? I tried YouTube, but they only had one video of a 250watt/15" speaker combo being played. If I want to go the Carvin route, I am taking a serious look at the Carvin MB 1215 combo:
    http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/MB1215
    It utilizes the same 250w amp, but has a 12" woofer, 6.5" mid, and a titanium tweeter. It also come with a separate cab with a 15" woofer in it. All for $600. Has anybody owned/played/heard Carvin amps? Is this a case of "too good to be true"?
    Last edited by Noel1983; 02-15-2014 at 04:32 PM. Reason: Wrong Markbass link
    Ibanez SR1200
    Ibanez AFB200
    Carvin MB210

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    Alberta, Canada
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    Default

    The Carvin amp appears to have some pretty flexible controls. I especially like the low/mid and upper/mid semi parametric tone controls. Lots of flexibility there to shape your tone. Don't know what the tone Shape knob does.

    Since it is a D class amp, be aware that while the power is good, it will likely not be able to provide any headroom above that power level. Many have found the D class amps to distort when hit with normal music peaks when set at much above 2/3 of max power as they have little/no headroom above the rated level and can be nasty sounding when they clip.

    That being said, if you aren't going to be pushing the volumes on the unit (smaller venues and home use would appear to be OK, you shouldn't run into clipping issues with it.

    Carvin has come a long way in the last 15-20 years. At one point in time, many suggested that the only good stuff in the Carvin catalogue was in the guitar part, but I understand that has changed quite a bit. Never played a Carvin amp, so can't give any personal observations.

    Did a little searching over at Talkbass and the MB12 head seems to be fairly well liked. It would appear they do recommend the added speaker as there are a number who found the standard cab, with the downward pointed 12" speaker sounding a little thin. The external 15" cab pulled more power from the amp and appears to have rounded out the sound. The consensus there seems to be that it is best suited to a practice, small venue amp.

    There is lots to browse on Talkbass with a Carvinguitars area and a thread going on the Carvin MB combos and amps.
    ___________________________________
    Steinberger NXT5 EUB, MTD 535 Fretless, Tobias Killer B6, 72 Fender Precision
    Eden WT500, WTX1000N & WP100, QSC PL230
    Eden D410XLT, D410XST, 215, Fender Bassman 10

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Charlottesville, VA.
    Posts
    219

    Default

    I really like my Carvin MB210 combo (250 watt amp in a cabinet with two 10" drivers). I've had it for a little over two years now. I'm pretty sure that I got one of the very first production units. The reason that Carvin prices seem to be "too good to be true" is that you are buying direct from the factory instead of through a distributer/retailer with the added mark-ups. Also, they have a ten day return policy so if you don't like it you can ship it back for a full refund (you do have to pay for return shipping). They ONLY sell direct, so their business model demands that they offer quality products and exceptional customer service. They have been in business since 1946 so I'd say that their model is working okay. I also have a Carvin Brian Bromberg Signature B25 bass which I love. I am currently GASing over a Carvin PB5 bass (I aim to have it in time for Roy's Bass Camp this summer).

    Roy has several Carvin basses including the B4 (used in TMBG), an SB5000 (which you can see in the video currently on the first page here on TR), an LB76 (which you can see on the cover of his Urban Legend CD), and a brand-spanking-new PB5 which he was bragging about recently on TalkBass (sometimes I really hate him [he says green with envy]). Roy is an Endorsing Artist for Carvin, but I think that is just for their basses. He also endorses Eden Amplifiers. There is a page here on the Row somewhere that gives a list of some of his equipment and endorsments.
    Bass Rx When Feeling Blue:
    I I I I IV IV I I V IV I I
    Repeat As Necessary.

    (Minor Variations Allowed)

  8. #8

    Default

    Noel,

    Of course all opinions are subjective but IMHO;

    >>First of all, is a tube amp head REALLY that much better than solid state to warrant the ridiculous prices?<< NO, in the old days maybe but today's technology has brought forth some pretty awesome amps.

    Our practice spot has a Rumble 75 that I use regularly. Pretty good but not great. However, good enough for what I am doing. The Orange stuff is good, but you pay a premium for the name. Ok, Nicki, mentioned the Promethean line from Ibanez. Those are awesome if you can find one (hard to come by). They are compact and powerful. Trust me once you leave the basement, size does matter. I had the 450 watt head with 10inch cab. It was fine for practice and small gigs, but the 10 inch cone for outdoor venues was just not enough. That said, I used to remove the head, and pair it with a GK 2x12 cab and it rocked pretty hard. (Note, don't buy any other amp from Ibanez...)

    I know own (however) an Aguilar TH500 and two Aguilar GS112 cabs. I like the split as if we are playing indoors I only need one cab, if outdoors I bring both. I went with the Aggies because I heard them at a friends gig (his bass players uses them) and they just sound right to me. So I sold my Promethean gear (great return on investment in the Promethean btw). Either way, I like head and cab separates as it gives a bit more flexibility when carting gear back and forth.

    As for the Carvin gear, Carvin makes awesome guitars, IMHO, the best bang for the buck, all custom and considerably less expensive than comparable models from big brand makers. Their bass amps are also very good, but again it is a matter of personal preference. As with their guitars, you get an awful lot for your money. I have played through them, off and on, and they sound great. But for my Aggie love, I would be playing through Carvin today. As someone mentioned, Carvin is able to deliver at such a great price point is because they cut out the middle man and deal directly with you (the customer).

    Good luck with it. Keep us posted on what you ultimately decide.

    Best,

    AB


    LW Gold Standard 5
    Carvin/Kiesel - Icon5, BB75, PB5, LB70
    Fender - Pbass (DiMarzio Ultra P pickups, Warmoth Jazz neck), American Deluxe PJ, MIJ Walnut Jazz, American Elite Jazz
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    Power by Carvin B1000 through Markbass 2x10 Traveler (x2) (MarkBass Nano for practice/small gigs)


    Somebody turn up the Bass!

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  9. #9

    Default

    Thanks again to everybody for their input.

    I forgot to say it in one of my previous posts, but I don't need tons of power. I don't play in a band, and I am NOWHERE near good enough to even think about auditioning for one. My entire song repertoire consists of about 10-12 songs (not counting the TMBG practice songs), and I can't even play most of them perfectly without being hand fed the notes via Rocksmith!

    Also, my apartment is pretty small. My living room/practice area is about 12' x 20'. I have neighbors left, right, and below all of which are senior citizens. All say that they can't even hear me practicing (I set the master volume at "7"), so I figure I can go louder, and get some better sound shaping with a new amp. However, whatever route I go I won't be maxing out the volume.

    @ DaveB: I was looking at the MB210 in my initial comparisons on the website. That combo would also allow me to pick up a decent rhythm machine (Alessis or Boss) so that I can go away from the metronome and just do all my practice locking in with a drum kit. What got me looking at the MB1215 was the 6.5" mid range speaker. Since I turn the mid frequency up on the bass I thought that it might be a nice addition to my set-up. If it isn't too much trouble is there any way that you could record a short clip of how your MB210 sounds so that I can hear it? (Please don't go too far out of your way to do so, if it is easy, then cool, if not, then cool.)

    @ Tobias: If I remember correctly (and I might not) I believe the tone shape knob on the amp is to cut/boost the mids for an instant slap set-up. Thanks for pointing me towards Talk Bass forums. I will do some digging there.

    @Slinger: I looked at the Promethean amps early in my search (Ibanez guitar, why not an Ibanez amp, right?), but I saw some fairly scathing reviews and they made me gun shy. But maybe I should give them a little harder of a look.
    Ibanez SR1200
    Ibanez AFB200
    Carvin MB210

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    2,088

    Default

    Yep, the golden faced amps and cabs in the TMBG videos are Eden gear.

    Eden has a new "E" series of combos http://www.eden-electronics.com/products/eseries/ that include a 115, a 210, a 110, a 28 and a 18. They are high end amp/combos and a bit pricey compared to Carvin, etc.

    As you can see in my signature, my rigs are almost entirely Eden (with the exception of a QSC power amp I use with either of the two Eden preamps - the WP100 and the WTX1000N).

    Excellent stuff and I'm not looking to replace anything soon. May take a look at David Nordschow's (he's the designer of Eden gear before it was bought out) new DNA equipment. Eden went through a couple of subsequent ownership iterations before ending up as a bit of a boutique brand under Marshall.
    ___________________________________
    Steinberger NXT5 EUB, MTD 535 Fretless, Tobias Killer B6, 72 Fender Precision
    Eden WT500, WTX1000N & WP100, QSC PL230
    Eden D410XLT, D410XST, 215, Fender Bassman 10

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