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Thread: Having several odd time signatures in a song

  1. #1
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    Default Having several odd time signatures in a song

    Lately I listen a lot to TesseracT, a progressive metal band from the UK. They really have a unique music style, with looping guitar riffs, delays, but also playing in odd time signatures like 5/8, 11/8, 13/16.

    In on of their songs, Nascent, they play some stuff in 5/8, then go to 11/8 and then back to 5/8 again. But how does this actually work within a song and how do you write this?
    Never give up

  2. #2

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    Think Pink Floyd's MONEY. Another of those weird time signature songs. But it works, hey?



    - low life -

  3. #3
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    Good morning, Thomas
    Regarding your questions on the use of different and unusual time signatures within a song; I have a couple of ideas, but no writing experience. Please take the following, therefore, with a grain of salt.
    I think the time signature is the basis for the felt pulse of the piece. Take the example of “Mars” in Holts’ “the planet Suite”. Its martial stridency is pushed along by the 5/4 pulse. Using different meters (time signatures) in a song alters the pulse feel during the song. We speak the same way. Look how a standard domestic argument might be scored:
    4/4 Forte
    You think that you
    Can just do what
    You want this time?
    ¾ piano
    Well I feel
    You should just
    2/4 Fortissimo
    DROP DEAD
    In Elmeaux’s example of “Money,” the switching from 7/4 to 4/4 to 6/4 adds to the feel of acquisitiveness in 7/4 to having-new car, caviar-in 4/4 and the slide back to greed via 6/4 going to 7/4. (But I may be overanalyzing this).
    A example of a bass player who writes in odd meters within a song is Tal Wilkenfeld. Check out “Truth be Told”, which uses the 7/4 slowing to 4/4.
    For me, if I was going to start writing, the first step would be to listen to a lot of different meters to see how they feel, and how they make the song feel. Nascent was cool by the way. Then I would hope, I may have an a feeling of when to use them to change up the feeling/pace/mood of the piece. Now that you remind me, I think I will go back and do a concentrated listen to Dave Brubeck’s Time series. It was pretty radical stuff in the late 50’s and early 60’s.
    Have fun
    Brian

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by brian_primrose View Post
    Look how a standard domestic argument might be scored:
    4/4 Forte
    You think that you
    Can just do what
    You want this time?
    ¾ piano
    Well I feel
    You should just
    2/4 Fortissimo
    DROP DEAD
    I prefer to see DROP DEAD as staying in the 3/4 time.

    Well I feel
    You should just
    Drop Dead...2...3
    1...2...3..
    DEAD... 2...3
    1...2...3...

    Fade out....

    Heh, heh.


    - low life -

  5. #5

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    If you happen to be an old dinosaur like me, you might want to check out anything by Rush - they move in an out of 3, 4 and 7 seamlessly in many of their songs. You could also have a listen to "Miracles Out of Nowhere" by Kansas - especially the solo, or a relatively newer group called Mutemath doing a song called "Chaos" - you'll find that on YouTube. I personally think that the best use of various time signatures within one piece can often be found in Jazz Music. Just as an example, my son is the bassist in an Ensemble this year in the Jazz Program at the University of Manitoba that is playing some numbers with a variety of different time signatures - here's a liink to them playing an arrangement of "Caravan": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLBMEtbHeeM . It really gives a longer tune like that a very fresh feeling.

  6. Post

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Kievit View Post
    Lately I listen a lot to TesseracT, a progressive metal band from the UK. They really have a unique music style, with looping guitar riffs, delays, but also playing in odd time signatures like 5/8, 11/8, 13/16.

    In on of their songs, Nascent, they play some stuff in 5/8, then go to 11/8 and then back to 5/8 again. But how does this actually work within a song and how do you write this?
    Hi - why is music in any time signature ? You can write it as one long bar if you want - just a series of notes - or wrote everything in 6/4 - - but that is not the point -

    The point is how and why did this happen ? Different cultures/ different time signatures - ??? We are after all musicians - different instruments - ideas - tastes... But time signatures???

    I have horrible news for you - it wasn't music first. It was dancing first. The music was written to accompany the dance. So I have this little dance that goes - right right - turn back - left toe thing - then a double fast tap every other time then the pattern starts again. Ok wrote me something that goes with that ... Ok get out the calculator .... Hmmm that xtra toe tap
    Thing every third time makes the time signature 32 1/2 over 4.

    If that is too hard to visualize - take something without extra 16 th notes at the end screwing up a simple pattern - those dancers are evil -- take - 13/4 time. - 13 quarter notes to one bR - quarter note gets one beat. So / you have to decide how you are going to feel this - you can split it in two parts 7 plus 6 or. 6 plus. 7 .
    I chose 13 as it " sounds " like it could be complicated. You need to make a pattern that is 7 beats long then 6 beats long - then repeat .

    How is this ---/------/--
    Where dashes are quarter notes - slash is a rest

    Want to get fancier?
    Use a dotted quarter rest and mix up the ups and downs. ...

    How's this

    4 1/8 over 4

    Bar of 4 with an extra eighth note at the end
    Or
    More interesting 8 1/8 over. 4

    Now we get back to why

    Why not -depending on where you've you are usually not exposed to most of the rest of the worlds music.

    Here is some homework.

    I will BET that of you do this you will never hear bossas the same again

    Girl from ipanema ( I actually played it there once ...)

    Play it in 7 - yes you have to re phrase the melody. Maybe there is a swinging version on YouTube I don't know. - bit once you start hearing bossas in. 7 /4 you start wondering why they are not all in. 7 ....

    Look at early Cuban music woth the bass cahons I can't remember what they are called right now - the intricate patterns - all based from ancient dances that weren't boxed in by musician pieces sticking to one type of time sig.

  7. Default

    Sheesh I forgot to actually answer the question ---

    5/8 means 5 beats per bar - eighth note gets one beat - it was written ( I'm
    Guessing ) that way to
    Be able to hold the tempo of the original time signature - meaning the pulse will remain the same but the phrasing will of course be different due to less heats per bar.

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